Welcome to the Grow My Podcast Show
Feb. 21, 2023

48. Monetizing your podcast: 3 tips for getting an ROI with John Kiernan

48. Monetizing your podcast: 3 tips for getting an ROI with John Kiernan

Feeling stuck on your path to monetization? While there are no shortcuts to building a podcast audience and growing your authority to monetize your influence, John will show you how to make this path clearer and easier. 

John Kiernan is the Director of Customer Success at Podbean. He has extensive experience in the podcasting industry, having worked in sales, marketing, and customer success.

"Never be afraid to tell your audience about your monetization opportunities. If you have all these ways that people can support you, your show, your content, or go, and nobody knows about it on the show, even if you drop it once or twice at the beginning, once at the end, or once in the middle, wherever makes sense for you. If no one knows about what you got, no one's going to use that medium to help fund you." - John Kiernan

John Kiernan is the Director of Customer Success at Podbean, a podcast hosting company. He has extensive experience in the podcasting industry, having worked in sales, marketing, and customer success.

In 2019, John noticed how the podcast industry was growing and took the opportunity to become part of it by joining Podbean. Through his role, he was able to learn more about podcasting and its potential to become a great source of income. He also learned of various options for generating money from podcasts, namely live streaming, selling courses, and selling content via premium podcasts. 

John encourages podcasters to use their show to create value, allowing them to monetize their content and reap the benefits of their hard work. He also shares techniques like how to use live streams to grow your audience and build a community while facilitating a way for them to donate to you directly. 

In this episode, you will learn the following:

  1. How to monetize a podcast even with low download numbers
  2. The potential of live streaming as a revenue generator and how you can use it today 
  3. The Rule of 1000 to guide your passive income strategy  

EXCLUSIVE BONUS CONTENT If you want to know how you can use Live Streaming to monetize your podcast and learn more about how others make it work, check out my bonus clip with John’s insights! Click here to unlock it

Related Grow My Podcast Show episodes you may enjoy:

Replay Episode (How we made over $200k in our first year of podcasting!)

This is the story of how a podcasting newbie transformed her first business podcast into a lead generation machine, closing over $200K in her first year.

Monetizing Podcast Guesting: Christine McAlister's 3-Step Strategy

In this episode Christine McAlister walks us through how to use podcast guesting to not only promote ourselves, but also to leverage someone else's podcast to create organic content for our own profiles and grow our own impact.

Resources mentioned in this episode 

💻 Try Capsho for free here

Capsho is an AI-powered podcast marketing copywriter that creates an episode title, description, show notes, social media captions, promotional email, LinkedIn article and YouTube description AND curates a selection of quotes from your episode. All in under 10 minutes with a simple upload of your episode audio file.

🤝 You can connect with John here

🎁  Unlock the bonus clip here

💬 Send me a message here

❤️ Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating here 

Connect with Deirdre: Instagram  | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | LinkedIn


Deirdre Tshien 00:26:05

I fell in love with podcasting pretty quickly and pretty deeply after launching my first podcast. Even though it was a little bit of a pretty rocky start, shall we say, it ultimately led to the growth of my coaching business. I'm sure you've probably heard me tell that story multiple times before. You know, the one that I made over $220,000 in my first year? Podcasting? Yeah, that one. And it was because of that success that knew that there was no turning back. Podcasting had its hooks well and truly into me until I decided to launch my second podcast and my third, and in fact, my fourth, which, to be fair, I haven't actually published yet. We recorded some episodes, but it's now just been sitting there because I got too busy. Too busy. Okay, so this is the fascinating thing, even as I break down my own thought process around these things. Why is it that as a big evangelist of podcasting, I mean, I've literally built a product for podcasters? I'm someone who knows the power of podcasting to make me money. How could someone like me fall off the wagon? Why did I fall off the wagon? Because by the time I launched those other podcasts, I had certain expectations, right? I had certain expectations that the podcast would do something for me, it would help make me money. But with most subsequent podcasts, they didn't. They weren't making me money. And by the way, I am totally, totally self aware enough to know that it is not the fault of podcasting, okay? Podcasting is just the medium. It is not the tool, right? We all have access to it. But what will help someone have success with it versus not is how they use it. And for me, I was not using the medium, this podcasting medium, in the right way. I didn't know my audience. I didn't have a solid offer, which meant that I had no way to monetize. And for anyone else like me who is incredibly economically minded, not getting an ROI on the time that I was spending on podcasting was a death knell. That is my number one reason for Pod fading each and every one of my subsequent podcasts after my first one and before this particular one. So if you're listening to this and you're potentially in a similar boat, you have a podcast and you know you want to monetize it, but you're not exactly sure what that's going to ultimately look like for you, then guess what? You're in the right place. Yes. In this episode, I have John Kiernan from Pod Bean who is going to be talking about the three ways you can monetize your podcast now so you can actually start getting a return on it. Pretty cool, right? So these are the three ways that, honestly, I wish I had known about with my previous podcast because it would have meant that I could bridge that gap between wanting to start a podcast and having a solid offer at the back end. I didn't have that solid offer. I didn't know my audience. I wanted to start a podcast. These three ways, these three tips could have bridged that gap for me. These are the three ways that could have kept me and my podcast going while I sorted all of that other mess in my head out. So if you are also trying to find ways to monetize your podcast right now, then this is the episode for you. My name is DJ Shen, CEO and cofounder of Capsho, the fastest way to market and grow your podcast. And this is to grow my podcast show. Hey, you. Hello. Hello. I am so excited about this episode because John is honestly just the best. He is an absolute blast. Okay, let me tell you about how we met. We met with the first very first time at last year's podcast movement. So that was in 2022. I actually distinctly remember because I was in one of my introverted moods, which is like pretty much all the time, but in particular, right, for my fellow introverts, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I was in the lift was first thing in the morning and it's that time of day when you're in what Vonar calls the third space, right. You know the time of day when you're mentally gearing up and galvanizing the energy you're going to need to interact with people all day? That was the mode that I was in. As the lift is making its way down, the doors open and John steps in. Now, usually there are polite smiles all around, but not with John. No. He launches straight into asking about me and what I'm doing and how the event has been going. He was just a ball of extra virgin energy, but we hit it off immediately. John has so many cool thoughts on the future podcasting. And with the rich insight that he has been at the forefront of podcasting with Podbean, I knew he could bring immense value to you about monetization. So with that said, how did John get into podcasting?


John Kiernan 00:04:56

So about 2019 is when I joined Podbean and throughout that time, it's been really cool to see the industry grow. Obviously, podcasting has been around for years and years before I was ever part of Podbean, but just in the last couple of years, you've definitely seen a large amount of growth with it. I've listened to podcasts so much over my lifetime and I had a podcast around 2018 and it was actually hosted on Podbean. And one day I had seen that they were looking for new talent to come into the company. So I applied. I had a conversation with our CEO and a few days later I was part of the company. And I originally started off on doing more of the sales side, right. Working with our enterprise clients and things of that nature over time. I ended up becoming the head of marketing for a couple of years and now actually I am the director of customer success. So I still definitely dip my hat into the marketing arm along with my coworker John and more members on our team as well. But in general, yeah, it's been an amazing ride, I will say. So far. For those who aren't familiar with Podbean, we are a podcast hosting company. We host over 600, I think the tally now is 650,000 podcasts under our umbrella. We work with verticals all over from podcast networks to individual podcasts, people who are using podcasts in the enterprise space for internal communications and things of that nature. So really what we're going to be talking about today is a lot of monetization opportunities that exist in the podcasting ecosystem. I'm specifically three verticals for which we provide solutions for. But this isn't just a hey, Pod beam provides a solution, it's more podcasters have asked us how do I monetize my show? And there are definitely opportunities for that in all different download numbers, people who have had lower download numbers, people who are in that upper, echelon of millions and millions of downloads. Also, we think it's really important to be able to provide those solutions and be able to take advantage of them. If you're a podcast or looking to.


Deirdre Tshien 00:06:56

Grow your show, does that feel like a relief that monetizing your shows doesn't have to be dependent on the number of downloads that we have? So we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we are going to get into it with the three ways that you can start monetizing your show right now. Okay, let's get into it. What is the best way that we can monetize?


John Kiernan 00:07:17

Yeah, and the first thing I'll always put out there is, and I think this is just kind of emblematic of growing your show, growing your brand, growing your business, however you want to conceptualize it, right? Whatever your vertical is, you always want to have content that you're putting out. If you're thinking about growing your show, monetizing your show, things like that, the biggest thing is always thinking about your show. First and foremost, the show is its own entity, right? So what are you putting out? Is this a piece of content that someone is going to want to continue to come back to? Right. Every piece of content that somebody puts out. I think that when it comes to monetization, one thing that we often forget is that right up font, your product is your show or your product is something else that you're using your show to help to enhance. Right? So by way, your podcast is another product, right? So when people are coming to your show, are you putting out a show that is simply, like you said, a lead generator or like I said, a lead generator or is it something where you're using it to create some sort of value. In a lot of lead generation podcasts, what you see is you see a lot of podcasters who the show is just, for example, brought to you by this company, right? But what that does is that allows you to create a show that really does provide some sort of value, whether it's entertainment value or tips and tricks or interviews, things of that nature, you still want to create something that people want to come back to that you can use in that way. So the big thing that I will always put out there, first and foremost, just kind of as not even a tool, but as a tip, always think about if you have a podcast that you're using, how would you go ahead, would you come back and listen to it, right? Would you come back and have it as a piece of content that you would come back and listen to over and over? And if not, what do you have to do to create that piece, right? Because the better your content is, the more people are going to resonate with it, the more they're going to share it, the more they're going to have that community built around the content that you're creating, the more you can maximize and monetize on that audience, right? So that's my initial spiel of everything. So now we talk about some of the different tools, right? So one of the first tools I always like to go over and I kind of start from a podcaster who's just starting out all the way to our professional podcast, something that's become fairly large over the last couple of years, whether it be through YouTube, the Pod Bean app, whatever the case has been live streaming, right? And live streaming is one of those areas that I think when we come from the world of podcasting, where generally you can record kind of in a four walls environment, then you can edit it, you can polish it, you can make yourself sound however you want to your guest, same thing. Cut out all the UMS, all the whats, all those things. Then you can upload it and it's perfectly polished to how you want it to be, which is great. The thing, though, when you do live streaming, and especially through a tool like we have, is oftentimes it's a different kind of feel to your show. So if your recorded show is usually something that, like I just said, is a little bit more polished and a little bit more like, hey, I've got this hard cut of 30 minutes or 22 minutes or whatever the case, you can have your live streams have a little bit of a different, more resonant feel. What's great about live streams is usually they have an outlet such as a donation that you can have at the moment. So if you're doing a live stream, let's say through Pod Beam, live stream while you're on your audio livestream, your audience can donate to you in the moment, right? So what does that look like? That could be in the form of super chats. That could be in the form of, hey everybody that donates during the show, I'm going to go ahead and shout you out if you donate more than X amount and above, right? So if you donate $5 and above, you can be on the show in some capacity with the host that you listen to. And you love being able to give you some sort of credit during that. And the great news with that is people can donate whatever they would like to, right? So you can have a podcaster who's just starting and they say, I'm going to go ahead and let's say I'm going to do a podcast once a week and then once a month I'm going to do a live stream. Like just putting out something there, right, that livestream. You can let people know on your show, hey, if you go ahead and you donate here, I'm going to shout you out live in the show and I'll shout you out on some of my podcasts coming up throughout the show. Let's say your podcast is an hour, your podcast is a half hour, your live stream is an hour. That gives you lots of time for your audience to be able to donate to you in the moment. And that could be somewhere as small as $5. That can be podcasters that we've experienced that are getting thousands of dollars on a stream, not from one person, but from multiple people. Someone drops $50, someone drops five, someone drops 100, someone drops 20. And this is something that you can do virtually for free. You know, this is something that you can start up an account, you can do the live stream and you can receive those donations. So when people say that upfront with no audience, it's difficult to monetize. You can even have a small audience of 1015 people, but if they're dedicated to what you're putting out and you have an audience who's willing to support you, you can use live streaming to create that sort of income for you right off the bat. So always live streaming, whether it's through us or another platform, I will always recommend live streaming for both a unique way of engagement and as a way to quickly monetize your show. And, you know, maybe the first live stream that you do, you maybe get one donation. You might not get any donations, but the more you create your ebb and flow that, hey, I'm going to be doing a live stream, more people will join. The more you speak about the opportunity for them to donate, the more people will over the course of time as well. So that's another thing. Also when it comes to monetizing, and we're talking about solutions and I'm also giving you pro tips. Never be afraid to tell people about your monetization opportunities. Because if you've got all these ways that people can support you your show, your content or go or if it's a lead generator to check out your natural products and nobody knows about it on the show, even if you drop it once or twice at the beginning, once at the end, or once in the middle, wherever makes sense for you. If no one knows about what you got, no one's going to use that medium to help fund you. So, you know, we've seen a lot of podcasters over time who, when we do some of the coaching, we say, okay, cool, what are you doing? We take a listen to a couple of their shows, we're like, oh, you've got a patJohn here, you've got this and this and this. But you don't mention on the show why I don't want to sound too salesy. It's fine. If you've got the outlet there, you can still be confident and tell people, hey, I've got this outlet here if you want to support it. I'm doing this live stream here. I have this outlet here that you can support me. If you let people know and you put it on your audience, your audience will return that in kind. So that's just a pro tip for a real quick pro tip in general. But yeah, live streaming, I would say, is always the first one for anyone of any audience. And obviously the larger of an audience you have, the even more pivotal live stream can be for that. I think we've seen that when it comes to things like Twitch, things like YouTube, things like Podbean live stream, I can tell you that one of the big things that we've seen with live streaming is that in the moment, people are able to see that good income. And if you're doing it consistently, you can consider it a really strong revenue generator and then you can repurpose that content later. So you can always have it as a podcast episode later on as well. So that's at least the first part when it comes to one way of monetization, it's one of the ways that isn't as passive as some of the other ones that we'll talk about. But it's definitely something that for a podcast that has a low foot count or a high foot count that I would always recommend doing for sure, live streaming.


Deirdre Tshien 00:15:04

Why have I never thought about this before? Me? Because I needed someone like John to tell me, okay, so how can we actually do this? What tools do we have at our disposal to monetize through live stream events? So basically it's a video livestream through Podbean and it collects money on your behalf so people can just, if they're on the platform, can just be like, yeah, I want to give you money really easily through Podbean.


John Kiernan 00:15:29

Is that how it works with Podbean live streams? It's an audio only live streaming platform, which the great thing about that too is it's awesome to be able to have some sort of visual going along with it. But at the same time you can start from your computer, your iOS, or your Android device using the Pod Bean app and website. But if you only have your headphones and you only have your phone, you can start a live stream from anywhere. So what you do is you create a PodBean account. You log in, you can set your live stream to be scheduled for a later time and date, or you can start a live stream in the moment, right? The audio stream is picked up by Podbean, the iOS and Android app, and people can access the stream on the Pod Bean website as well. Users can join the room. All they have to do is create a free Pod Bean username and password. And what they do is in an app they can donate to you at the moment. What you would do is you would purchase what we call our virtual currency, which is golden beans. You would purchase those golden beans and then you can donate exactly like you said in the moment to the podcaster.


Deirdre Tshien 00:16:29

As soon as John mentioned this strategy, I had so many ideas going off in my head, like as an expert, we can presell courses or we can launch products into MVP, say we're trying to sell merch like shirts or caps through our podcast. We could actually hop in a livestream and see if they can get presold before we even invest in any inventory. We can essentially test our products and offers before we spend any time or money on it. The ideas are endless with this strategy. Now the strategy in and of itself are great. And John had mentioned that there were people on Podbean doing this earning up to thousands of dollars. So what I wanted to know was whether John saw any patterns or trends in what they were doing that was making this work. And he gave some really, really great insights. Insights that I'm going to share as free bonus content. So if you want access to that, you know, you, you probably know what to do by now, right? Head over to the show Notes for this episode and pick that bonus clip up totally for free. Because right now I actually wanted to get straight into his second monetization strategy.


John Kiernan 00:17:36

So point number two is talking about selling your podcast, right? And again, with podcasts being such an accessible medium, we often think about Apple Podcast Spotify, the Pod being app, Google Podcast, these being podcast outlets that you can use to just listen to whatever podcast you want to. Apple Podcast has recently released the ability for you to purchase content, right? Podbean has given the ability to podcast is to purchase podcasts in general for quite some time. So we're familiar in this space with people using it as a source of revenue. Right. So one thing you could think about, whether you're selling your own podcast or whether it's a third party solution, selling your content. You actually brought up a great point earlier of selling courses, right? So there's lots of different tools that people are putting out lots of different products on. Here's how to, for example, be here's content and thought leadership, for example, here's content in self development, here's content in creating your own business. Things like you can go ahead and use a platform like ours to have an entire litany of content that people can subscribe to pay either a recurring or a one time fee, and they get access to all of this exclusive content that you're putting out. And again, you can have with ours. You access it through the Pod Bean app for iOS and Android, same thing all the user has to do sign in with the username and password. You assign specific episodes on your premium channel that are paid for episodes and then the users can listen to that content any time. If you're using the Pod Bean app to listen, generally you can use the Pod Bean app to also listen to the paid content through there. So that's another way that you can monetize as well. And this one I kind of put in between the advertising side of it and the live stream in terms of what kind of download numbers you need. Right, because people often think I need to have a large audience to monetize my show. I am completely against that belief. Yes, the more people you have that want to buy into what you're putting down, absolutely. The more money you're going to make sure that's non negotiable. But if you have content that fits a small audience and they want to go ahead and not even just support you, but they want more information from what you're putting down than if you're selling your content to that niche audience, you can monetize the audience that you have, whether it's a million people, whether it's a thousand, or whether it's 100. There's this rule that goes around called this rule of 1000, where if you have 1000 people buying $100 worth of merchandise from you a year, you can make a good living in whatever field you have. People that are coming from like the business world already, or let's say selling courses and things like that, they may already have the idea of, oh, I want to sell my content, I just don't know what medium to use. So they may already be in that head space. Right. So for podcasters that are generally just publishing one episode, just talking about like, for example, like sports or something like that, there may be some different creative outlets to where you can say, what would people want to for example. So it may not be the ultimate for all mediums, but I think that for a lot of people, especially now in 2022, where everyone's looking to monetize. Most people who are looking to monetize have some sort of outlet that they could sell. So I think that using premium podcasts is a way that for downloads of low to medium or even high, obviously, you can get a lot of return and continue to see that's more of a passive income stream. If you have that content and you just say, hey, here's my course load, you can download it as a podcast, makes it super easy for people to buy it, listen to it, and for you to make recurring income on a new audience.


Deirdre Tshien 00:21:17

Jeez, I really got to start doing some of these things myself. And if I did, I wanted to learn from John about how I can actually lead people to buy from me.


John Kiernan 00:21:26

It really depends on where you're coming from, right. So, like I said before, if you're somebody who is using podcasts as a lead generator, chances are you may already have this content already. It's just being repurposed into the podcast purchasing medium, so to speak. You may have people that are podcasters just right in the moment saying, oh, this sounds like a great idea. So what I would do is I would just like you were saying earlier about thinking about podcast and why people would want to come to it, think about what you're looking to do and think about why someone would want to purchase content from you. Right. Again, there may be some mediums where it's difficult to consider what kind of content that would be. We make it super easy to create the channel, though. For those who are familiar with Podbean, you can start up your account. You go ahead and you start up as many channels as you'd like to, right varying costs and whatnot. But you can create that premium channel within your podcast dashboard, and any content that you publish to your premium dashboard will be able to be monetized and purchased by your audience using the Pod Bean iOS or Android app. So if you're somebody that already has a litany of content, so long as it's in that format, you can go ahead and upload it. If you're somebody that's thinking about, hey, how do I want to do that? It might make sense to sit down. Kind of like you're talking about deirdre. Think about like, okay, cool. What content would I want to use in that? The thing that's great also is it's not restrictive, meaning that if you have your content on multiple mediums, you could have it on Apple podcast subscription. You can have it through Podbean subscription. It's totally fine. There's no exclusivity. So for some people, they may say, I want to have one place that everybody can come and just keep sending them the links to that. Like you said, keep mentioning it through the shows, have it on your website, post it everywhere. That stuff is great. But it's not exclusive to us. So you can have that content in different places and monetize in all of these different avenues in terms of how do you get people to click the button and buy the thing, again, it always comes down to letting people know where they can buy it. One thing I've always found that's really helpful from some of our most successful testimonials, and again, you can kind of hear where my head has been at in terms of courses, right? If you have people saying, hey, I went ahead and purchased this content and it's really helped me do X, Y and Z, then it's going to give your audience or potential audience more buy in. But again, mentioning it on the show is great. Mentioning it in all of your outlets is great. One thing I'll always say is if you're scheduling out advertising, or let me actually pull that back, if you're using something like social media and you're scheduling out posts, which again, if you are running a serious podcast or your business, always schedule out your podcast. Always schedule out your tweets and Facebook and Instagrams, all that. Try to get those on a schedule if you can, allocate like an hour or two at the beginning of the week to schedule at least a certain amount of posts, you're going to do great for yourself. And that's one of the things that you can schedule out. Let's say if, let's say in a day you're doing six or seven posts on one of your mediums like Twitter or let's say on Facebook, you're going to say, I'm going to post once a day, gives you seven days in a week. Make one of those days, one where you post about your show, all that, or that people can find you and purchase your content, right? So there's lots of different ways that you can do it. I think what happens, again, always try to mention it in all of these different places. The more testimonials you can get around the purchased content, the better. Again, when it comes to getting people to click that button, showing them how easy it is can also be a thing too, right? Because there are so many places that you can purchase content where it's like, okay, cool, after create a login here, then I have to do this and I have to do this. And then with us, it's simple. You download the Pod Bean app, you create the account, and then you purchase the content and you can listen to it. It should be that easy. So even being able to create a quick walk through video on, hey, here's how to get my content. That can be a piece of content that you can put out. You can have it as a pinned post, you could have it as a Pin, tweet, all those kinds of things and just show people how easy it is to purchase something. Times someone. Seeing that it's only like two or three clicks can be the difference between them purchasing your content and not purchasing your content. I think all of us, especially in the digital world, expect everything to be two clicks away. If you have to create an account, then you have to insert information. Then you have a file type, then you have to Google, what does this file type mean? And then you have a converter. And then that doesn't work without you're already losing me. You're already losing your audience. So if you're just like, hey, I'm going to show you how you can buy my stuff in like three clicks, do this, do this, do this, and make it engaging. Make it captivating. You can keep recycling content like that. Mention it everywhere you have your stuff. Have other people mention it as well and be ambassadors for you and show them how easy it is to access your content.


Deirdre Tshien 00:26:05

Is your head spinning with all the ideas, all of these ideas, no matter where you are with your business, if you have no idea how you're going to bridge that gap between creating content through a podcast and starting to actually make money from it, you need to implement at least one of these strategies. But we're not done yet because John has another strategy to share.


John Kiernan 00:26:28

Yeah, the third one, I think, is something that is always top of mind, has been top of mind for podcasters, but in 2022 is probably the most top of mind, which is advertising, getting advertising on your show, right. And this can come in a variety of different ways. Advertising is probably top of mind for most people when it comes to how do I make money with my show, right? Okay, I'm going to run ads on my show. There's a lot of different ways that you can do this. There's a lot of different avenues that you can approach at any level of podcaster, too. And you'll keep hearing me go back to any level of podcaster because I think that we see podcasters who have hundreds and thousands of downloads and a lot of podcasters get real discouraged with that. They go, well, of course this podcaster is going to be advertising with McDonald's because they get millions of views. So we often think that we need to get to that level, which is what we should all strive for generally. But you can make this kind. You can make this work on any level. It's just a matter of who you're working with and what you're going to be able to position. Right. So when you're running ads on your show, one thing that Podbean offers is our ads marketplace. The ads marketplace gives podcasters the ability to join and be paired with advertisers that can run ads on your show. And you can set your podcast up to choose. I would like this kind of advertising. I don't want this kind of advertising. And advertisers can find your show based on a variety of pieces about your show, your download numbers per month, geolocation, and a lot more information on what the business finds your show. They can advertise for as long a duration as a campaign that they'd like to. We just started our programmatic advertising recently, so that's been a big win for our platform as well. For those who are looking to go more direct, for those who, let's say, have that high volume number and they can go directly to businesses, or for even people that have a smaller foot traffic, right? And they say, I want to advertise, but maybe they don't have quite the foot traffic to get like high level advertisers always make a press kit also. So, like, let's say a one sheet or a two or three sheet that tells all the stats about not your company, about your podcast, tells about who you are, what your download metrics are, some big episodes, other sponsors that you've had before, demographics, things of that nature, you can email this or give them. And that's a great way to partner with advertisers on your show as well. And with programmatic advertising, you might see that your podcast is chosen and you're getting continual income from those ads running on your show. You may see that if you're reaching out to, let's say, a podcast or an advertiser, and it's more direct to you host read, they may have a flat fee and an expectation of impressions that they pay you at once. But between those different mediums. If you're running ads on your show, it's one of the ways that makes it easiest for you to monetize your show, especially with things like dynamic ad insertion, where it's like, hey, I have this show, and let's say I have a catalog of shows, and I just want to run advertising through it throughout my back catalog. You can have ads dynamically inserted to it from that capacity also. So there's a lot of different ways when it comes to monetizing with ads. But I like to showcase those two also where it's like you can have us do something like Dynamic Ad Insertion and Programmatic ad or you can go direct to the businesses with a press kit and that also gives you the ability to work more directly one on one with a business.


Deirdre Tshien 00:30:02

So I'm assuming that if we were to go direct that we probably do need relatively good download numbers. This is one that we already know about in this podcasting industry, right, running ads. But I also know that the barrier for a lot of us comes down to the number of downloads that we have. So can we, as independent podcasters would say, ten downloads an episode, use this strategy?


John Kiernan 00:30:31

Yeah, I would usually say and I never give hard numbers because never say never with anything, right. The quick and dirty that we've always said is usually podcasters start getting advertising asks around 2000, 3000 downloads from the ads marketplace. That being said, obviously if there's a niche that's much lower, for example, and it's a really niche market, but you know that that podcast has a core audience for your product, then there's a chance that you'll be able to get that advertising lower. Obviously, the more downloads you have, the more bites and the more hits your podcast is bound to get from different advertisers. Right. The reason why I bring up the direct to business also is when you have a lot of these automated tools, the programmatic ad setup is really pivotal for people that are of downloads of lots of different strata. Right. But again, usually around those two to 3000 downloads, I think the industry would say once you start getting 10,000 downloads and above, you'll be able to really start seeing that traffic for advertisers come in. Right, but I think sometimes if you for example are going to a conference or you go to meet ups, or you speak to specific businesses that are local to you and remember, a lot of podcasts that are put out are also localized. So if you start speaking to local businesses and you have your press pit and you say, hey, I want to advertise with you guys, there are potential to even get with a small amount of downloads, like you said, maybe 1020, 3100, something like that, you said ten, I'm adding the other numbers. But when you start kind of thinking of that approach and thinking of kind of the shotgun approach, you open up the market to being able to say, even though we don't have a large foot traffic, we do have a small niche audience that we could somehow say, well, think about each person being this amount towards your bottom. There's ways that you can the core of what I'm trying to get to is that a niche audience that is much smaller can still be monetized effectively. It's just, I think when we think about advertising, a lot of it is setting expectations as a podcaster as to the legwork that you might have to do for it and some of the avenues that you might have to do these tools exist. The tools to be able to have advertisers find you automatically, it's great, but if everyone can do it and then those other people are also having, for example, like massive amounts of downloads, there's a chance that they're going to get chosen at a higher rate than your podcast. But that doesn't mean that your podcast isn't worth advertising on, it's just you have to restructure it, rethink it, and then maybe have it at a different point in your podcast business plan.


Deirdre Tshien 00:33:06

Wow, this conversation has given me so much to think about. Even as someone who has a pretty well defined business and business model, I am still thinking there's some really great monetization opportunities here for me to leverage. Like one creating opportunities through live stream events, two premium podcasting or selling shows, and three ads. I highly, highly recommend Podbean because they have an amazing team and are an amazing group of people like John. So if you're interested in learning more about the platform to host your podcasts on here's Where you can go, you.


John Kiernan 00:33:43

Can check us out at www.podbean.com. We are also on social media, everything but Instagram is@podbean.com Instagram is Podbean.


Deirdre Tshien 00:33:54

And don't forget to get that free bonus clip which you can find in the Show Notes. If you're curious about how you can use livestreaming to create, to start to create income and you want some insights into how others have been able to make that work, then head over to the Show Notes and grab that free bonus clip. That's all we have for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us and as always, stay awesome.