39. Monetizing Podcast Guesting: Christine McAlister's 3-Step Strategy

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My name is Christine McAllister and I run a company called Life With Passion, where we help experts to grow their businesses and grow their impact by being top podcast guests. 

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For some reason, I had never really thought about podcasting as anything else, especially to create content for myself until I sat down with Christine and she walked me through how she thinks about podcast guesting. And honestly, it blew my mind a little bit. So this particular episode is not exclusively for podcasters. This episode is for any of us experts looking to not only promote ourselves, but to leverage someone else's podcast to actually create a lot of organic content for us in a way that absolutely promotes them too. Because what better thank you gift can you give than that to someone who graciously allowed you onto their podcasting stage?

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So if you are interested in killing two birds with 1 st that is monetizing your podcast guest spots and creating weeks and weeks of social media content, then this is the episode you need. My name is Deirdre Tshien, CEO and co founder of Capsho, the world's first AI powered podcast copywriter. And this is the Grow My Podcast Show.

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Okay, so we have an action packed episode for you today because I have Christine McAlister with me to help us flip the script. Instead of us talking about our own shows as hosts, we are going to delve into Guesting so that you can monetize your expertise and create evergreen social media content for your own profiles.

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But how does someone go from being a broadcaster for the Olympics to helping experts monetize through podcasting? It's a long and winding road for this 40 year old. I have always been in media in my professional life and in my studies, so for a long time that was traditional media because sort of the Internet didn't exist much when I was back in undergrad and graduate school. And so I studied television and I studied film and I made a documentary for PBS and I got to broadcast the Olympics for the IOC three times, traveling the world doing those big broadcast type things. My heart has always been storytelling, though.

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And so while I didn't necessarily want to live on the road and I'm actually not a sports person, that's really ironic that I was given those amazing opportunities that people probably would have. I don't know what body part they would have given to sit next to Kobe and Adie and Katie and LeBron and watch them win gold. I could appreciate the experience and I'm much more of a people person. I'd rather sit across from you and have coffee as we've gotten to do before, which I'm so grateful for, than be a nomad by following big sports figures. So I was a professor for several years teaching media, and then I was excited to pursue my dream of being full time on my own and ran an online marketing agency for a decade.

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And what I learned in that time was that what I really loved was helping people, like with the strategy and not so much the doing. So I made websites and I ran Facebook ads and I wrote copy and I did all the things. My preference though is really to help people present themselves in the best light and those happen to be the ways that I did it at that time. What finally got me to step into this next level of being out there, being visible, which I think a lot of us struggle with at a certain point in our journeys, right? Having a personal brand was actually a personal tragedy for me.

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So there's going to be a trigger warning around child loss. But my first daughter, in 2015, was still born at full term after a perfect pregnancy. No warning, no expectation, no even understanding that this is a thing that happens at that time. And so I just went to one of my last doctor's appointments. The car seat was in the car and the doctor said, your baby has no heartbeat.

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I was like, I'm sorry, what? And they sent me directly to the hospital to be induced to have a baby that was no longer alive. So that was like, probably to this point my biggest burning to the ground moment. And I became really determined to do something that mattered at a bigger level. I became aware that I was playing small out of fear.

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And I went, okay, this is the time because what am I afraid of anymore? So I dug deep and figured out what my own kind of zone of genius was inside of my current business. And I created an entirely new business to help people and to coach people to get out there and do what they loved. And at that time it was helping people quit their jobs and start their own businesses online, which I knew how to do to tie that to podcast guesting along the way, I started going on podcasts and found that that brought me a lot of amazing long term clients and I had started it because it was really fun. And then I found that however I was showing up was actually making me a lot of money.

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And apparently how I was showing up was different enough that then these people in podcasting started asking me to teach their clients and their people and them, how do you do this? And they started saying, I'm gonna steal this for myself. And it eventually became, as you know, like, okay, well, this is the opportunity to pivot. Like, this is sitting right in front of me. We have a thing.

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Now we know who it's for. Let's go all in on this. And so that's what we do. Now that's all we do. I especially love to help experts who have an online personal brand and have a really important mission and message.

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So you know my origin story. I am not in this for a cash grab. I am in this for legacy and impact and yes, of course, to feed my children. I now have two living children, which I'm so grateful for. And so I really, really love to help who I say are important voices with important messages, not the broliest people in the room or the people with the biggest ad budget.

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And what I also find is that a lot of us are burning out because we feel like we have to live on social media in order to get clients. And as you and I have discussed previously at Will Moore, I believe that it can be different. I believe that Podcast Guesting is kind of a best kept secret because when you do it better than just about anyone else, you can get a consistent ROI from those appearances. You can attract long term high ticket clients without leaving the host feeling like you just went in and sucked everything out of the audience that they have worked their butts off to build. And we all know that I'm a podcaster too.

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It is not easy to start from zero and build your podcast audience of people who know, like and trust you, right? So when someone comes in and it's just like, look at me, look at me, I'm amazing, buy my thing. It's just so gross to everybody. Everybody except probably that person who doesn't understand how to do this to make it a win win for everyone. So that's what I'm on a mission to do, is change the way podcasting is done.

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Because I believe that there are like a dozen benefits other than just getting in front of other people's audiences that most people miss out on because they're very myopic about what is possible and about how they show up. And so I believe that it can also lead to, like, your best friends and a lot of fun and a lot of joy and a lot of money. And so we focus on all of that. I am so looking forward to learning from Christine McAlister. In fact, if you want to hear a little bit of personal coaching she did with me, I'll link to that bonus clip in the show Notes.

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But first, I wanted her to take us through her overall strategy and approach to monetize Podcast Guesting. So we talk about how to podcast guests for profit, right? And the most important thing to understand is that this is not something to just add on or tack on to all the other crap that you have to do to be visible and grow your audience that often feels like a slog staring at that cursor going, I had to put something up. What am I going to write today? Something could happen that's interesting for my stories, please.

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And that's a constant drain in your energy. This can become the entire center of your marketing, like organic and paid if you choose. So it's worth an investment of your time before, during and after your appearance because I also believe that this is the most leveraged form of networking that you can do, right? Like, I've been lucky enough to meet you in person and we sat across the table and we talked, just the two of us, but now we get to have this conversation that goes out to all of your amazing listeners and also I get to talk to you and you're great. So the way to think about this is quality over quantity.

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So the way most people do it is a lot like the way most people apply for jobs, which is spray and pray. You take one templated pitch and you send it out to a million different people. If anything, you might copy and paste the name of the show in, but there's nothing customized or personal about it. Guess what that comes across turns out. So what if you identified people that you would actually like to make friends with and you invested the time to get to know them like you would if you wanted to get to know a friend and their show a little bit.

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So what if you treated podcast guesting as a first date with somebody that you were really into rather than as a one night stand? 99% of people, one night stand. So that's going to change the way that you research because you're going to look for who would I like to form a long term relationship with? That's going to change the way that you pitch because you're going to show, wow, I actually care about this person. How can I show them that I care about what they're up to and not just me?

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That's going to show in the way that you show up to the interview, how prepared you are, how much you care about what they have going on and what happens after. Do you share the episode? Do you stay involved in their world? Do you look for ways to help them out? Because we all know this as podcasters, we know how much work it is to get an episode out into the world and get people to listen to it, whether we're doing it or we have a team to do it that we're paying for.

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But I think it's easy to switch our brain off sometimes and forget that respect when we are guests on someone else's show. So remember and then that in and of itself will change the way that you show up. So that's like a brief overview, but the mindset is respect, respect, respect for that stage and don't take it over because pro tip, the listeners aren't there for you. They don't know who you are. They don't care who you are.

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Like, you all are listening because you love Deirdre, not me, right? So this is not my show, and I want to make sure that every single thing that I do is going to help you, because I don't have to worry about it working out for me if I'm helping you. Because the overall goal of this show is not to make Christine look great. It provides value to the audience. You felt, oh, so much gold here.

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The most powerful thing Christine has shared with us is that a lot of what we do is about mindset. Our intentions will create our outcomes. This authenticity is what will govern who we choose to pitch to and how we show up to our host. This authenticity is what will come through and be the dealbreaker to how we monetize, especially as a podcast guest. So if you want to dive into the three steps in Christine's strategy so that you can make the most out of being a podcast guest to monetize and create a bucket load of your own content, then hang with us.

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We'll take a quick ad break and then jump straight into them. So I have a protest. Don't do this if you're driving. It's probably a lot if you are, okay? So bookmark this and come back to it later.

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Make yourself a voicemail. I don't know. Ask your favorite clients or your audience or both what they listen to. Like, again, market research, something we all do at the beginning of our businesses. What I see so often is completely overwhelm when it comes to where do I start with who to pitch.

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So really, really make it simple on yourself. And we always say it only takes identifying one podcast that somebody in your audience or on your client list really likes to be able to go down a rabbit hole as long as you want, because recommendations on Listen notes, right? People also listen to the Apple podcast spotify, et cetera. There are lots of different ways to find similar shows. You've got to start small.

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So you want to start with, ideally, shows that are listened to by people who are either super fans or who have already paid you. And this is very similar to how some of the top podcast producers in this space right now help their clients determine what to talk about, what to focus on, all of that simple market research. So that's the thing one is actually willing to ask. And you can ask people to submit screenshots to you so they don't have to type it up or make it complicated, right? Just go through their subscriptions, what are their favorites, send you screenshots.

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Then you get to do what I call a Vibe check, which is to listen to a recent episode. Right? You're obviously a podcast listener. So listen to a recent episode and see if this is a person you want to build a long term relationship with. If it is, then it's time to create a pitch.

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Unless, of course, there's a personal connection that can be made. Sometimes there are also millions of podcasts, so sometimes there aren't. Create a pitch. Invest the time in creating a pitch that is going to tell them what you're going to do for them. Make it a really easy yes.

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Tell them that you have done your research, that you have listened to the show, that you have some topics that you think could be valuable, and tell them that you're going to share it. If you are, of course, tell them that you're going to share it. And I recommend making a video because that's something that almost no one does because, yes, it's an extra step, but it also proves that it's you sending it, and they get a chance to experience your energy as opposed to what comes through in an email. Make a video. Now, why didn't I think of that?

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But what I really wanted to know is how is it that Christine does that vibe check? So I will listen at one and a half or two X while I'm in the car on my way to do something. Recent episode that sounds interesting to me for the way that the host shows up their energy, the way that the guest shows up the interaction, the kinds of questions, right? Is this something that I feel like I would fit in with? Is this something where I know that there are people who show I could probably get on, but I mean, they're like, you're really abrasive and I'm really sensitive, so I don't think that would be fun for anyone or wow, oh my gosh, this is the kind of person I would love to grab a tea with.

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Right. This is what I'm looking for. If you want to really, really boil it down, is that how I keep it from being transactional and I'm, like, in alignment with my values? Okay. This is a person that I think I would really enjoy and that hopefully that would mean they would enjoy me too.

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Okay. So step one is to find the right people to pitch to and to craft the perfect pitch. How about step two? So what happens when you get the yes might freak out a little bit. That's okay, go ahead and do it because you've already done your research enough to know that there is a fit there and you've put in the time and energy to show the host that you care.

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And what that does is set you up from the beginning for an even better interview, right. Because you're already standing out in their mind as somebody who does what 99% of people aren't willing to do. So they're excited to have you on. The tone is different once you get on to that show. Now, if you've been introduced or you've been invited, then this is your opportunity to do homework ahead of time and not show up blind so that you can see the public facing who their audience appears to be.

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You can see what they're up to, what they're focused on, and go in with some preparation. And I recommend, once you get on to that podcast, really looking to make it a conversation rather than an interview. Like, there are genuinely things that I want to know about you that I'm curious about. And giving yourself permission to ask when the time is right, it engages the host in a completely different way than they're used to, where the host has to carry the entire conversation. Always be thinking about what to ask next while trying to listen, while trying to make this valuable.

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It's a big load to carry, and you know this. So probably the best question to ask yourself as a podcast host is, like, how would you like for someone to show up? What would be a big relief or joy for you compared to the ones that you're like, do I have to air that? If that's ever happened to you or that you're like, what am I doing next? What time is it already?

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I mean, as cheesy as this is, like, they say to us, be the kind of client that you would like to be when you have your own mentors or that you would like to attract. Be the kind of client that you would like to attract. Be the kind of guest that you would like to have on your show. Right. And how that walks out is, in my experience, treating it like a conversation.

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Not trying to be salesy, not trying to hold anything back, not pulling up your keynote and being like, no matter what questions they ask, I'm going to make sure to get my three talking points across. Right? There's nothing wrong with having talking points. Yes. You need a clear message, especially if you're just practicing.

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As a guest, I highly recommend, like, putting sticky notes on either side of your monitor with key points that will jog your memory so that your brain isn't like, what happens when we freak out, Deirdre? What happens when we draw a blank? Are we gonna sound stupid? You know, ask me how I know. Yes.

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Be prepared. But I used to teach speech when I was a professor, and, you know, most of us have heard that statistics show that most people are more scared of public speaking than they are dying. And I got to see that front and center with these students who were so terrified to look a certain kind of way in front of their peers. And I really quickly realize this is not a speech class. This is a confidence building class.

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How can I help them believe that they can do this thing that they're more scared of than death. And also there are some reps that are required so that you get to what we call extemporaneous speech, right? Where you ask me a question that I wasn't expecting or had never been asked before, I can think about it and respond. But if you ask me a question that I get asked all the time, I don't sound like a robot. Or if I'm used to speaking on stages and delivering a message and taking over the conversation, I don't do that either.

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It's a completely different stage and skill of communication and most people assume if they get good at one thing, like speaking on stage, you're doing a Facebook Live, that they are good at this too. And we just really find that not to be the case. So once you understand that it's a skill that you're learning, then you're not making assumptions and you're willing to practice it. And that's a long rant. But this second step is really important because 99% of people stop thinking about their strategy for the interview once they get the booking.

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They're just like, oh, I got the booking and everything else will magically work out. Well, then those are the same people who say, I went on a bunch of podcasts. I mean, it was fun but it didn't do anything for my business. So I guess I'll just go back to living and dying on social media because I don't really see the other options or ads or whatever it is, right, it's because you didn't follow all the way through, you just focused on one part of it. So hence my harp on step two.

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Yikes. I don't know about you, but I've definitely fallen into that trap myself where I'm so relieved by getting the yes that I kind of forget there's more to it. Do it in being an awesome guest, right? Okay, so step one is you have to find the right host to pitch to and craft that perfect pitch. Pro tip, use a video.

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And step two is going to be a really powerful guest where you really respect your host. So what is step three? So once you have embedded this idea of like you're learning this whole new skill of podcast guests, this is a skill that you can have for life, which is so cool because once you learn how to show up as a really powerful podcast guest, then step three is just a follow through of that. There's no other medium where people can fall in love with you with one touch. And we all know podcasting is a super intimate medium because we're living life and learning and getting entertained while we're driving, walking the dog, doing the dishes.

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So when you have an engaging conversation, then people are waiting to find out how they can follow you off of that episode. And what's really important here is that you just give them one place to go. So where a lot of people mess up is they're like, oh, I'm everywhere at Cap show. And that is immediately overwhelming to all of us who are on information overload all of the time. So your job is to sell a free place for them to go where your business is specifically set up to welcome them and nurture them.

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And that's different for everybody. And it should also create what we call podcasts, offer alignment and be a bridge between what you just talked about, solve the next problem toward what you do in your business. So it could be a freebie that you already have that's been validated, but your job is to tell people why they're going to get something awesome from it and then offer it in a way that's very, very simple and it's just the one place to connect with you. And that's the way to start the monetization process from the audience that you just connected with. But like I said, there are a lot of other different ways that you can create the opportunity to monetize beyond what happens when that episode drops.

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Because again, that's where most people hang their hats, I wonder how many options I'm going to get. Who's going to reach out the day the episode drops? Right? I want you to realize that this episode is an algorithm proof asset that you can use and repurpose in so many different ways as long as the internet lives. So if you love that episode, you can put it in your email sequence.

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You can do more with it than just share the graphic and be like, go listen. When the episode comes out, you can transcribe it. If you're listening here, you know, you have a great opportunity to have a free trial of somebody who does that for you. And you can use it as a month's worth of social content. You can pull out the gems from those transcriptions, from those headlines, from those quotes that are generated for you, and you can also tag that host and further give them credit, right?

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Wouldn't you love that if a guest did that for you? Like a month or a quarter or six months after the episode drops? Hello. You can also look for ways because you've chosen somebody that you're truly aligned with. You can also look for ways to help each other.

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I'm a person whose entire business is based on connections with humans. I like that's my whole strategy, right? So far it's worked out. So I really believe that if you're a person who is of service, then a rising tide raises all ships. And so you can look for ways to collaborate with that host to make introductions and vice versa.

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It all comes out of this value of like, I'm here to serve. Yes, this is the obvious way. I have a business, have high ticket offers to help people with the stuff that we just talked about and what are all of these other things that could come out of creating a really strong, valuable connection with another successful person in the business space? Oh, man. This last step is definitely my favorite because it really brings it home for us, right?

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And learning this completely new way of engaging with my host while creating a bucket load of content for myself was so, so eye opening. And in fact, I know I already mentioned that I was going to include a bonus clip in the Show Notes, where Christine actually coached me through some things, but I'm going to include another bonus. And in this bonus, Christine actually goes into how you can take one podcast guest appearance and create a month's worth of social media content. What? So go ahead.

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You can grab that bonus clip in the Show Notes as well. And if you want to stay in touch with Christine and continue learning from her, here's how you can do that. So, if you want to get the next tangible steps to make an ROI from any podcast guest appearance, no matter how big or small, you don't have to go on Joe Rogan in order to get an ROI from this strategy. In fact, it probably won't work like you think it would, so just get that out of your head. You can go to life with passion.com slash Profit, and I have a training for you called SmallPod, Big Profit.

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It's free, and it will help you with the next steps toward monetizing your own guest appearances. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Go and grab those bonus clips in the Show Notes, and as always, stay awesome.